There are many feeding methods out there--demand feeding, hyperscheduling, cry feeding, demand schedule, self-regulating schedule, clock feeding, natural feeding, rigid feeding, cue feeding, responsive feeding. Which to do? Is demand feeding the only way to fulfill your baby's needs? Will scheduled feedings dry up your milk supply if you are breast feeding? With all the choices out there and so many people telling you to do this or that it can be
really confusing. When deciding what method to use you need to do what is best for you, your baby and your family.
"How you choose to feed your baby will have a profound effect on your child's hunger patterns, sleep patterns, and basic disposition." (Babywise, p. 30)
As you probably already know, I am partial to a structured routine which includes flexible scheduled feedings from birth. I'm mentioning this as part of this sleep blog because I've found a structured routine (with feedings as a part of this) to be very helpful when trying to establish good sleep habits. See Why have a schedule/routine?
Babywise suggests the parent-directed feeding approach (PDF). The idea behind this method is similar to what you will find in The Baby Whisperer. It is the "center point between hyperscheduling on one extreme and attachment parenting on the other"(BabyWise, p. 36)."Both the variable of hunger cues and the constant of time guide parents at each feeding. The parents' role is that of mediating between both the cue and the clock...using parental assessment to decide when to feed based on actual need" (BabyWise, p. 37).
With PDF you encourage full feedings to help prevent inconsistent and overly frequent/infrequent feedings and to ensure that baby gets the fatty hind milk. You feed baby when baby is hungry, but you evaluate the situation if baby is hungry much sooner than usual (is baby in a growth spurt? was the previous feeding not a full feeding?). You also wake up baby when it has been so many hours (e.g. 2.5-3 hours in a newborn) since his last feeding. This helps to reduce the risk of not feeding a sickly or extremely tired baby enough, and it also helps organize baby's night and days to encourage better night time sleep. In the end, baby ends up getting just as much milk during a 24 hours period as a "demand fed" baby, but it is simply redistributed to less, but full, feedings.
How to do the PDF Method
- Encourage full feedings
- Feed baby when he shows cues of being hungry. Hunger always trumps the clock!
- Feed baby if X number of hours go by since his last feed. A healthy newborn should be able to go around 2.5-3 hours between feeds during the day if he isn't in a growth spurt or cluster feeding. Once baby appears to be growing well (your pediatrician should let you know when this is) you will probably not have to wake at night to feed except for the dreamfeed if you choose to do this.
- If baby consistently feeds sooner than X number of hours evaluate the situation to see if you can find a cause. Sometimes, like with a growth spurt, there will be no need to do anything different.
- Don't obsess about things. Don't expect things to be perfectly on schedule and don't stress out when they aren't. With most babies they won't be, especially in the newborn stage.
POSSIBLE PROBLEMS WITH HYPERSCHEDULING:
- Baby may not be fed when he is hungry simply because it is not time yet. This may lead to a malnourished baby and a loss of milk supply for mom.
POSSIBLE PROBLEMS WITH "DEMAND" FEEDING:
- Some baby's will not show enough hunger cues (e.g. sick ones) and may therefore not be fed enough.
- Constant feedings may lead to excessive fatigue (and possibly frustration) for mom which is one of the most common reasons moms stop breastfeeding (babywise).
- Inconsistent feedings can make healthy sleeping patterns difficult with some babies.
- Baby may be fed so frequently and so little at a time that he never gets any of the fatty hind milk. Frequent feedings may (but not necessarily) lead to the baby taking in too much lactose which can lead to an upset stomach. This can be particularly bad when a baby's cries signalling an upset stomach are answered with additional food.
- A cry is usually considered a sign of hunger--when this is certainly not the case, especially in an older children--resulting in very frequent feedings. When every cry is answered with food you never get a chance to find out what baby's real needs are but instead cover up the need with food.
RELATED POST:
Eat/Wake/Sleep Cycle
Hi,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the tips. These symptoms to watch out for in children are really helpful. My husband was diagnosed with sleep apnea a year or two ago and I have heard that it often runs in families. I am a little bit concerned that our children might have it as well. Now I know more about what to look for.
Glad it was helpful. Make sure to follow up with your pediatrican (or a specialist) if you have concerns about your children and sleep apnea. Some signs are snoring (but this is common in many children without sleep apnea), restless sleeping and constant day time sleepiness.
ReplyDeleteI have read the Babywise book, but I find the principles on feeding difficult to apply. Despite my attempts of waking my baby up, she still sleeps after 15 minutes of feeding. And she's up an hour after, displaying hunger cues. So I feed her again but then after 15 minutes of feeding, she dozes off again. And so the cycle goes. I try to do the eat/activity/sleep routine, but she just really sleeps after eating and I just couldn't seem to find a way to wake her up. I hope you could give me some ideas on how to do it. Thanks!
ReplyDeleteHave you tried removing her clothing to help wake her up? Or changing her diaper mid-feeding? And, also try burping several times during the feeding in several positions. For newborns (at least for both of mine), it usually takes 45 minutes to an hour to get a full feeding in because they are so sleepy, but if you work at it, you can keep them awake.
DeleteNew mom,
ReplyDeletesee these posts
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2010/02/sleepy-newborns-tips-to-keep-baby-awake.html
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/05/full-feedings.html
Sounds like you are not getting full feeds in so she is snacking all day long. 15 minutes is the typical time for babies to snooze off with breast milk, it is a sleep inducer.
Unless you can get baby to take full feeds, she will continue to snack. It will get easier as she gets older, but that might not be for a while. IT depends on the baby.
RAchel
The PDF philosophy makes a lot of sense. We're starting to work on it at 4 weeks. I read that the key is the cycle - feed, wake, sleep. What if our 4-week old stays awake for the full 3 hours and ends up hungry. We generally feed but then he goes to sleep right after the next feed. Screws up the cycle. Do we let him cry himself into a nap to insure he gets one?
ReplyDeleteLNS,
ReplyDeleteTHe feed,wake,sleep cycle often works well with this, but if your child is not falling asleep for a long time or is having short naps and you are unable to extend them, you'll have to do what ever makes the most sense in your situation. If he is awake for 3 hours then you would have to feed before a nap. 3 hours is a super long time at that age. Not sure if he just won't fall asleep or if he doesn't seem sleepy. There is a post on wake times that might be helpful.
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/02/wake-time.html
Usually babies that age are up for an hour or less and then sleep for 1.5-2 hours ish on this routine. Well, this is what you are hoping for but it doesn't always work out so you have to switch it up a bit. If you have to feed before sleep, try not to feed to sleep if you are wanting to prevent a feed to sleep prop.
Rachel
I need some advice. I read and re-read babywise manytimes! I have a 11 week old who has always been a good eater and sleeper (sort of). We were on the babywise 3 hour schedule and our pediatrician (at the one month appointment) suggested we stop waking him up at 3 hours to let his body learn to go longer between feeds and sleep longer. Sounds great, right? So, probably since about 5 weeks, we have let him nap up to an interval of 4 hours since the last feed. The result (maybe) is that he STILL can not sleep longer than about 4.75 hours (less than 5) during the night. He has NEVER slept five hours during the night. I am not sure if my expecatations are just too high (he is 11 weeks old) or whether letting him nap for sometimes 3 hours at a time during the day is ruining his night time sleep. It is hard for me to go against what the pediatrician says and earlier on he was a difficult baby to wake up to feed. I have tried extending waketime but that doesn't seem to be good for him (he gets fussy quick if he is tired and wants to sleep). He is certainly thriving size-wise with these 6-7 daily feedings. Sample schedule below - thoughts welcome!
ReplyDeletebetween 6-7am wake and feed
7-8 - waketime/leave for daycare
8-10:30- morning nap
10:30-11:30 - feed and wake
11:30-1:30 - catnaps
1:30 - feed
2:00-5:30 - few segments of naps mixed with waketime
5:30-6:30 - eat and waketime (doesn't stay awake much longer than 30 minutes or so before getting cranky to sleep)
6:30-9:30 - nap (must be woken up usually)
9:30-eat
10-1:45 - sleep
1:45-2 - feed
2-6ish - sleep until next morning.
Kim,
DeleteNot sure where the bedtime was. If it was later than 6/7, I suggest moving it earlier at this age. Night sleep is more restorative than day sleep.
Increasing waketime later int he day may help some. But only slightly and you would need to do it really slowly.
Yes, I think that longer nap can cause issues. That is one of the reasons you keep to the 3 hoursish routine earlier on. It helps break up those naps and give baby more waketime during the day. Too much daytime sleep will rob night sleep. as wartime extend, you extend the day time feeds. Some babies will not sleep much longer than 5 hours at 11 weeks, but most on this routine will do it so I would suspect the feeds and naps may have something to do with it. Feel free to talk to you pediatrician about the sleep issue. Tell him what you have learned and what your views are. There are so many factors involved with sleep that you can't really just say to any person, have him sleep longer than 3 hours, and know that everything will turn out peachy. And from my experience, most pediatricians only have a little knowledge in the sleep department. He may have lots of knowledge, but not the whole story.
Rachel
Hi, i would like to seek your advice as I am applying pdf training on my 10 weeks old son. He was prematurely born on 34th week. In his 8th week, we had managed to drop his middle of the night feed so 11pm was his last feed and his 1st feed for the day is 7am.
ReplyDeleteAt 5plus am, he still fuss a little but after awhile, he is able to return to his sleep and wakes up again at 7am.
However, in his 10th week, he began to wake up at 3am and starting fussing till 5am. When i picked him up, he looked hungry and i fed him. Thereafter,for the next 3days,i nursed him longer as he desired to suckle more. We guessed that it was his growth spurt as his day feed was back to the usual nursing period. He now wakes up in the middle of he night for fussing for milk . He wakes up at 3am and we tried dragging it till 430am. He sleeps and wakes up at 7plus am for his first feed. May i know if we should continue to drag his mid night feed and gradually drop it till we reach 7am.? At 10weeks, how long should his wake time and nap time be during this 3 to 3.5hr cycle. Kindly advice. Thanks!
Elaine
Hi, i would like to seek your advice as I am applying pdf training on my 10 weeks old son. He was prematurely born on 34th week. In his 8th week, we had managed to drop his middle of the night feed so 11pm was his last feed and his 1st feed for the day is 7am.
ReplyDeleteAt 5plus am, he still fuss a little but after awhile, he is able to return to his sleep and wakes up again at 7am.
However, in his 10th week, he began to wake up at 3am and starting fussing till 5am. When i picked him up, he looked hungry and i fed him. Thereafter,for the next 3days,i nursed him longer as he desired to suckle more. We guessed that it was his growth spurt as his day feed was back to the usual nursing period. He now wakes up in the middle of he night for fussing for milk . He wakes up at 3am and we tried dragging it till 430am. He sleeps and wakes up at 7plus am for his first feed. May i know if we should continue to drag his mid night feed and gradually drop it till we reach 7am.? At 10weeks, how long should his wake time and nap time be during this 3 to 3.5hr cycle. Kindly advice. Thanks!
Elaine
Elaine,
DeleteLet's see, so he is around 4 weeks of age, adjusted.
Many if not most kids at this age are still eating every few hours during the night, with a possible longer stretch, maybe 5 hours. So if he seems hungry at this age, I would definitely consider feeding him, even if he has a dream feed. You can try to extend it out, but if he is really unhappy about this, then he probably really needs it. There are a lot of growth spurts these first few months. Some babies, once they sleep a certain period at night, will keep up going that long. Other babies bounce back with growth spurts or just random days when they are super hungry.
Check here for the waktimes. Adjust for his age. Likely no longer than an hour, with the nap taking up the rest of the period until the next feed.
http://www.mybabysleepguide.com/2009/02/wake-time.html
Hi Rachel, thanks for the advice. For the pass 3 nights, i fed him during middle of the night. His last feed is between 1115 to 1145pm. 3hours later, he would fuss again for another feed. Is usually between 2am to 3am. Thereafter, around 5plus am,he would fuss again but is a short fuss that enables him to return to his sleep. I will not feed him and he sleeps till 7plus am. It seems like i am unable to drop this feed. When would be a good time to try dropping this middle of the night feed again? How should i drop this middle of the night feed? Getting him to wake up after each feed is a real challenge for me. Kindly advice... Thanks!
ReplyDeleteElaine,
DeleteWhich feeds is he difficult to wake up after. Day or night? It is normal for babies this age to be sleepy right after feeds. May last for the first few months if their life.
At this age I just work on doing eat/wake/sleep during the day, a Pre-sleep routine, working on baby learning to fall asleep on her own and night feeds usually extend on their own. I might offer a pacifier or soothe back to sleep if baby doesn't seem too hungry. At a few months of age or if there is no improvement in slep at all I might do more than this.
There is a post about sleepy new brings with tips to keep them awake during feeds.
Hi Rachel,
ReplyDeleteI've read so much through your blog (prob for way too many hours!), and love it. I have an almost 12 week old baby who seems very hungry every two hours, day and night. He's exclusively breastfed and I think he's getting full feedings. I can't seem to implement any of this advice because I just feel like he's eating all the time. He's at the top of the charts, about 15 lbs and I would think he should be able to sleep through the night. He can stay in bed for about 12 hours at night, but I have to take him out to feed him so many times. I would obviously love for him to be able to go longer at night without needing to eat, but I don't know where to start. Any advice?
Thanks, Rivka
Rivka,
DeleteI'd start off on slowly extending out feedings. Try to add on like 10 minutes at a time between feeds by distraction. This will help him take more at the next feed and then have an easier time going longer until the next feed. Add on another 10 minutes every few days. Unless you have supply issues (which isn't usually the case) he will get plenty of food eating less often. He's used to eating more often and is taking in less at food so he is asking for food more often. Extending daily feeds should help with night too.
Thank you so much for answering! I'll try this.
DeleteCourse ;)
DeleteHi Rachel,-
ReplyDeleteMy 7 week old (10 lbs) seems to fluctuate- some nights he sleeps 5 hours, others we are lucky to get 3 hr chunks of sleep. We are struggling with the best way to try and help him out- what is the optimum feeding routine in the evening? Aim for 6 and 8pm, then dream feed at 10? He usually goes to sleep around 1030 after a dream feed, but has been waking around 130/2 and 430/5. We would love to see these get pushed later. Last weekend he went to sleep at 11 and slept til 4, so we know he can do it, just not sure how to get it more consistent. Thanks!
Jenstewart,
DeleteAt this age, many babies will drop the cluster feeding in the pm. I usually did a cluster feed, but just one. I'd do something like this. Feed (followed by naps) at 7 am, 10 am, 1 pm, 4 pm, 6 pm 9 pm. This was a preference thing. I liked to get a little cluster feed in, but a longer period right before sleep to get longer sleep (especially bc I didn't do the df with my last baby) and then it helped me go to bed early. I could never get myself to bed at like 7 or 8, but I could get myself to bed after the 9 pm feeding. So anyway, this got me much more sleep. Once baby slept a little bit longer at night, I moved back to feeds more like at 7 am, 10, 1, 4, 7. My babies slept longer relatively early, so this didn't last terribly long--otherwise I might move bedtime earlier sooner.
Your routine sounds fine. You can try dropping that last cluster feed (if he doesn't seem very hungry) and see if it helps things out. Sometimes it causes more issues with extra cluster feeds in the evening.
Some babies will go back and forth with their feeds, overall (hopefully!) heading in the right direction. It can be a bit frustrating. Generally a little time (assuming good sleep habits are in place) results in a longer time between feeds more consistently. You can help things along by trying to hold him off with a feed (by a pacifier or whatever), making sure to not rush in with a feed (give him a few minutes to see if he'll go back to sleep--and you try to do the same thing too!), and decreasing how much you feed at some of the earlier feeds. You can also do something like the Core night method if you're feeling like you need some change quick or else! I'll go ahead and cross post this to your other question bc they were somewhat similar. Let me know if I missed something.
Best of luck, Rachel
Hi Rachel, was Googling for people using PDF and stumbled across your blog, have really enjoyed reading it. I have a 2 week old and trying to start sleep training now. I really like the idea is quality feeds laying the foundation for quality wake and sleep time. I have been trying to feed her every 2.5 hours as per the baby wise book. I wanted to get your thoughts on waking her for a feed? Been been told never to wake a sleeping baby? Also, been implementing the four s and I like it I assume it will take some practice as she seems to need need to come in and pat her 3-4 times after I put her in her crib which ends up stretching to her next feed time and means I really don't get a break. Does this sound right - .e.g. feed 7-8am wake 8-8:45 and sleep 9ish -9:30? I've looked at the wake time guides and then the baby wise book said 2.5 hours but I'm not sure if that's not enough sleep for a newborn? I'm so new to this and just want her to be a well rested and well fed baby! Thanks so much, Nance
ReplyDeleteThank you for this post! It is so refreshing. Almost everyone I know does "demand feeding." I used Parent Directed Feeding at the advice of my mother in law with my first and have used it on three so far with great success. All of them slept through the night between two and three months of age.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing your success with it Anemone!
DeleteBy way of an update, thankfully, my fourth sleeps through the night now too. It's so nice! A lot of work and prayer on my part up front, but she is well fed, rested, and happy which makes things pleasant for everyone.
DeleteHi Rachel, i'm in serious need of help here. I've read the book twice and the theory seems rather straightforward but i can't seem to get any progress with my refluxy baby. She's already 8 weeks old and still hardly feeds for more than 5mins. She vomits averagely about 2-3 times a day and i'm talking about projectile vomits of large quantities (frequently out from her nose as well).
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure now what is a "full" feeding for my baby.. She refuses to latch any further after about 5 mins and if i force it on her, she will gag and puke everything out again.
As a result, her feeding cycle happens every hour :(
Her wake time is also another problem because its so inconsistent. Sometimes she stays awake throughout till she's hungry and calls for the next feed. Other times she knocks out immediately after feeding and if i persistently wake her up, she gets v cranky and cries non-stop.
Please tell me what i should do??
Hi. I'm trying so hard to apply the principles on babywise with my two week old but I'm so discouraged. It seems as though nothing works as planned. In the first week I just couldn't keep him awake and he slept all day and wanted to be awake at night. That has been corrected I think. But now, when I put him down for a nap, he starts fussing off and on. Crying low, crying hard, he sleeps 2-5 minutes and starts crying again. I check on him and he is dry, so I let him cry, but he will continue the same way : sleep 2-5 minutes and starts crying. Stop a little and start again. When 2 and a half hour comes, he still hasn't slept. And he seems hungry, so I feed him and he goes right to sleep. When time comes to wake him up, he won't, and it will take me a long time to feed him, trying to wake him up. Then, I try to keep him awake fifteen or thirty minutes, but when time comes to put him down for his nap, he seems hungry. I try for him to cry himself to sleep but he won't and the story starts again. He is doing well at night, sleeps 4-5 or even 6 hours before Crying for food. He is on formula. Then I feed him and he goes back to sleep. But during the day I can't make him do the 3 hour routine. He is taking only one or two naps during the day, and his constant crying is making me doubt about myself and all I have believed. I was so assured while reading babywise before he was born.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry. Those early days are so precious and crazy exhausting. Please don't worry about results yet. It's very early. Take it slow. Let him fall asleep on your chest while you sit in an easy chair so you can both sleep. Keeping him upright like that will allow burps to come up and not wake him later as painful gas. You shouldn't have to let him cry himself to sleep, especially at that age. Study his cues whenever you are awake and learn what makes him satisfied. I've never used formula, so you might ask someone else for advice on that specifically.
DeleteThanks so much. It's encouraging to think that I haven't lost the battle yet. I had read on babywise that on the second week he should be doing complete feed/wake/sleep cycles and not being able to accomplish it really frustrated me. I also thought if I held him in order to make him sleep I would be teaching him bad habits...
DeleteThanks so much. It's encouraging to think that I haven't lost the battle yet. I had read on babywise that on the second week he should be doing complete feed/wake/sleep cycles and not being able to accomplish it really frustrated me. I also thought if I held him in order to make him sleep I would be teaching him bad habits...
DeleteI have tried to breastfeed but... since I had a c-section, I couldn't do it from the beginning, when I tried, nothing would come out. They squeezed my breasts so hard and nothing came out. Baby preferred the bottle because there was food there. After trying and trying, milk started to come out of one breast, later on, the other. I always have a little more on one of them, even though I try to pump more the one that doesn't have much. I have finally given up trying for him to nurse because he cried and cried at the breast. Even if he nursed for one hour, he could always drink two ounces of formula afterwards. So I believe he has a reason to cry. He doesn't get enough. So I pump for about one hour on a manual pump and get about half an ounce. I feed him that before I give him formula. Don't know if this is the right thing to do but... I've been so frustrated about this as well. Always dreamt about being a breastfeeding mom.
ReplyDeleteBreastfeeding with a painful incision to heal from must be really, really hard. Do you have some more support people you can ask to come help? There may also be postpartum doulas in your area. It sounds like you are under a lot of stress.
DeleteIt sounds weird to me that your breasts would be squeezed hard before leaving the hospital. Sometimes milk takes a while to come in and the baby gets little bits of colostrum until then. If you'd like to keep trying, here is an excellent video on a proper latch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjt-Ashodw8 There are also times when a mom can't make enough for her baby. Usually she can, but I've known some excellent mothers who couldn't.
I'm impressed you're giving him your pumped breastmilk.
About having the beginnings of a feed-wake-sleep pattern by two weeks... That would be pretty much impossible if he's struggling to sleep. Focus on what you see he needs first? Here's a video I made that might help a little. Do you know a seasoned mom who can come watch you and your little guy and offer suggestions without being pushy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qsop4eQshWc
Keep watching his cues and enjoying his cuteness. Sleep when he sleeps, eat healthy with plenty of protein. Work around the house can wait. Praying!
It can be so hard to want to breastfeed when issues pop up. Try to remember that while breastfeeding is great for baby, sometimes it isn't always best for everyone involved when you weigh the risks and benefits (health for baby, mom etc). I would certainly contact a lactation specialists in your area (most hospitals have one you can contact) for support and information. Regardless of what you do with feeds, baby will be just fine. There are a million things that go into parenting and being a mother and breastfeeding is just one of them.
DeleteAlso, I agree with above (thanks for your suggestions anemone). What they did at the hospital sounds a bit odd. Mom doesn't get milk in for at least a couple/few days and it isn't unusual to not be able to really squeeze anything out, or maybe just a drop. And pumping doesn't always work to get much out, especially if mom is really stressed or when you are beginning. A lactation specialist can weight baby before and after which can be really helpful to see how much baby is taking in. She can look at baby's latch. Sometimes baby will take the bottle after if they just want to suck, not because they are hungry. BUT, of course it is best to make sure baby has enough food so I wouldn't hesitate to offer a bottle if baby doesn't seem full and content. Do make sure you are getting frequent stimulation of your breasts if you continue to breastfeed, otherwise milk production will not continue, especially if baby is over a couple weeks old.
I want to thank you for your comments and advice, Anemone and Rachel. I have read them and had meant to reply a long time ago, but life is so busy some times with a new baby.
ReplyDeleteAnemone's advice to let him sleep on my chest was a great relief. He sleeps there and after a while I can put him down and he stays asleep... I was afraid it would be bad to do that since I read in babywise we should train them to sleep on their own and not have sleep props. I would like to know some more thoughts on that... I am still afraid I may spoil him. He is 6 weeks old today, and I want to say he is doing better. He was confusing day and night for some time, but thanks to God, he has been sleeping much better, sleeping about 4 hours in a row, waking for his feed and going back to sleep without problems. But this changes if there are problems in his day. There was too much noise the other day that he couldn't sleep in the morning, and he slept all afternoon. I would wake him for his feed and he wouldn't really wake, just take his feed while nearly asleep and I couldn't get him to wake up. So at night, he woke up at about 11 and wouldn't go back to sleep. After I was too tired, put him in his crib and I went right to sleep, when I woke up to his crying, it was 2:30 and my husband said he had been crying since I put him in his crib. I felt so awful! He thought I was doing some sleep training and so he didn't soothe him or anything. Do you think he can be damaged by crying so much???
Also, I still have problems with him sometimes. Many times he is just wonderful. I feed him, I take him outside for a while, then take him in the room for his nap. I walk with him in arms and talk or sing to him till he falls asleep. Then I put him in his crib and after a little while, he wakes up, and he is there moving and making little noises until he goes to sleep. Some times he starts to fuss a little but then goes to sleep on his own. But other times, I can't get him to go to sleep. He may be very sleepy, but then he poops, I clean him up, rock him or something so he goes to sleep, he starts trying to sleep, but then he poops again, and he gets so fussy he won't go to sleep afterwards. We hold him and rock him, and he will sleep in our arms, but when we put him down, he cries and cries, and then seems wide awake. Then he cries even when we are holding him and gets really fussy and doesn't go to sleep for hours. It's very common that this happens in the evenings almost every day, but some times it happens in the morning too. I am afraid he is nervous, so I hold and rock him trying to calm him down, but then I am afraid I am teaching him to be held and rocked... I don't want to spoil him, but I don't want to harm him either, for sometimes I let him cry, and he won't stop, he can cry for 30 minutes, and when I try to soothe him, he will cry even harder, so I let him cry again, and he can go for an hour, until I hold and rock then after a while, he starts to calm down.
I am not sure I understand things correctly. I am not sure what I should be doing at this age as far as getting him to sleep. Some days he is so calm and goes to sleep so easily, and other days, it seems to me like his nerves are upset he will cry every time I put him down and if he goes to sleep he has a very light sleep and will wake up after a short time. I am kind of afraid to do CIO because of this. And I don't want to teach him to be rocked and held, but he seems so nervous some times that... that's what I do.
Please, what should I be doing to train him to sleep at this age? 6 weeks. So thankful for this site and your advice.
Wow, it sounds like you have made a lot of progress! Please don't stress too much about what the book says. It's a guide, not the municipal code. For instance, I've used sleep props of some kind with all of mine, especially with the later ones since I was getting desperate for sleep. Things like pacifiers, baby swings, babywearing, a portable bassinet we used at home and everywhere, white noise machines, and really dark rooms. If I'm watching the baby's cues, I can see later when it's time to wean them off. Usually my husband is the one who says, "Does he/she really need that anymore?" and I've only been hanging onto it for my own sake. Some things, like a favorite crib sheet that became a blankie, or in one child's case a pacifier, stayed a long time.
ReplyDeleteI've slept through crying too and felt bad, trying not to do it again, but it doesn't make me feel bad like intentionally ignoring a cry for something. I don't think my kids are scarred for life because of a couple of accidentally late meals.
As for the other bumpy stuff, maybe someone else can answer better. It sounds like you're doing great at observing him and have a good parter. Keep watching his cues, check the book, and try not to stress. He is still really young. All you're doing for him is great and will really pay off later when you have a regular bedtime in late baby and toddlerhood and can spend regular special time with your husband.
ooops! so sorry for the long comment.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Anemone, for your encouraging words. You are so nice and I thank you for reading through my looong comment :). I have really been reading on this site today. It's hard to get time in the computer, but I've used every minute possible to read. I have never used a pre-sleep routine, but just now, I started one... very simple, but something that I think I can do every time.I don't think I can do swadling because weather is so hot here most of the time. He sleeps with a fan on most of the time.
ReplyDeleteI also watched the video you recommended the first time. I am glad to hear I still have time to educate him on sleeping. I really want to do what's best for him. And yes, thanks to God, I have a great partner. We usually take turns in waking up so we both get some sleep :)
I am glad for this learning time. I just get stressed some times thinking maybe I already taught him bad habits and maybe I should have never rocked him to sleep... although other times I see he goes to sleep by himself so nicely. I am glad to hear it's o.k. to use those props at times. And my goal is to get rid of them as soon as possible.
Thank you again. I pray so much for wisdom, but some times it is good to be able to talk to a more experienced mother and get some advice. I pray God's blessings on you and your family.
You're very kind. I do hope you all get rest.
DeleteHi Anemone! I wanted to share some update and ask for some advice :) My baby, (2-months-old now) is falling into a more predictable routine, although not the one I had planned. After his first feed in the morning, he has a short nap. It could be 30-60 minutes. After that he may spend some time awake and then I feed him again when his cycle has reached about 2 1/2 hours. I usually do 3-hour cycles, but when he wakes earlier than usual I do a 2 1/2 one. Then he usually sleeps on for two cycles in a row. I mean, I wake him for his feed at 3 hours or 3 1/2 hours, and I can't keep him awake, it is like a dream feed, and he goes on sleeping. I usually have to wake him again at the end of the second cycle, but then I give him his bath, so he wakes up and stays awake for a while. Then he usually has a short nap, ending around 4 or 5 pm. From here on, he stays awake, usually until 7:30. I give him his last feed around 7 or 7:30, and he goes to bed. He is waking up once around 1 or 2 in the morning, and then he sleeps till his wake up time around 5.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if it can hurt him to stay awake that much in the evening... I have tried putting him to sleep earlier, but he usually wakes up again after a few minutes. When I put him to bed after feeding him around 7 or 7:30, he stays asleep good.
I know this doesn't go according to the whole pattern of F/w/s... Should I try harder to make him fit in it or this variation is ok? Can he be overtired and that's why I can't make him to go to sleep by 6 or 6:30? I let him be awake more time considering he has slept two cycles in a row during the day but, going from 4-7 awake, is it too much?
I would appreciate your advice. Thank you! and Blessings to you.
I'm glad you've made progress and hope it means more sleep for everyone!
ReplyDeleteIf you can, keep working towards a feed-wake/play-sleep pattern for each daytime cycle? Like you mentioned, baths are a great way to wake a sleepy one.
Still sounds like there's no hurry and he's doing well for his age.
Happy for you!
Yes, thanks to God, we're more rested and he behaves very well, especially at night, for he only wakes for one feeding and is back asleep. He even stopped pooping at that time! So it's becoming easier. Thanks for your advise. And blessings always!
ReplyDeleteYou're kind.
ReplyDeleteHi Rachel,
ReplyDeleteI have a 12 week old and we have been trying to follow the feed-wake-sleep pattern as well as PDF. She does okay with the feedings (4-6oz every 3-4 hours) and will stay awake for an hour and a half-2hours after eating but she will not nap consistently (sometimes 45 minutes and I can't get her back asleep) and wakes before her feed time so often! This has made her night sleep inconsistent as well. Sometimes she sleeps 8 hours for 4 days in a row, other times she gets up after 5 1/2 and we can not get her to fall back asleep without food.
I seem to struggle with knowing what a good bedtime is for her as well. She gets up at 7 every morning (I wake her if she doesn't get up on her own). What is an ideal feed/sleep schedule for a baby this age? Do I keep her up until 9:30/10 or lay her down at 7 and do a dream feed? I hear soooo many different opinions and I can't seem to find the consistent one that works for my little peanut.
Thank you for any advice you can offer!
Laura
Hi Laura! I have tried putting my 13 week old to bed 12 hours before his expected wake-up time and doing a dream feed. It has worked great. He does sleep very well from around 5:30 (because that's his wake time in the morning ). Consistency is sooo important.
ReplyDeleteNot an expert at all! Still trying to figure issues out with mine, but wanted to share the little bit I've experienced with success. Blessings!
Hi Laura! I have tried putting my 13 week old to bed 12 hours before his expected wake-up time and doing a dream feed. It has worked great. He does sleep very well from around 5:30 (because that's his wake time in the morning ). Consistency is sooo important.
ReplyDeleteNot an expert at all! Still trying to figure issues out with mine, but wanted to share the little bit I've experienced with success. Blessings!
Do you dream feed 4 hours later then- around 9:30- so that he gets 8 hours afterwards? Thank you for the advice!
DeleteI have twins and they were soooo easy to sleep train- both of them slept through the night at 6 weeks and never really regressed. This little doll has just thrown me for a loop and I feel like she defies all schedules and routines! Can't imagine what her teenage years will be like! 😂
Hello Laura. Wanted to reply sooner but.. I just put my lo to bed, so I have more time 😊
ReplyDeleteWhat I was doing was feeding around 10:30. Some times 11. Because he goes longer without a feeding at night. In that way he would wake up 4:30 or 5:00, because he isn't sleeping 8 hours yet. I think that's because he isn't eating well. Until one month ago he was eating well and I could see he was stretching his sleep, but then he started drinking only 2 or 3 ounces for some of the feeds. Almost only in the evening can I get him to drink 4 or 5. And so I feel I can't force him to longer stretches until he is eating better.
So anyway, if your little doll is already sleeping 8 hours, you can count 8 hours from her wake up time and do her dream feed there. If you put her to bed 12 hours earlier, yes, it would be 4 hours after you put her to bed. That would be more tiring if her bed time is 7. If you put her to bed at 6, it's better for you to get more rest.
We are early risers so we put him to bed aroun 5:30. 😊
Hello Laura. Wanted to reply sooner but.. I just put my lo to bed, so I have more time 😊
ReplyDeleteWhat I was doing was feeding around 10:30. Some times 11. Because he goes longer without a feeding at night. In that way he would wake up 4:30 or 5:00, because he isn't sleeping 8 hours yet. I think that's because he isn't eating well. Until one month ago he was eating well and I could see he was stretching his sleep, but then he started drinking only 2 or 3 ounces for some of the feeds. Almost only in the evening can I get him to drink 4 or 5. And so I feel I can't force him to longer stretches until he is eating better.
So anyway, if your little doll is already sleeping 8 hours, you can count 8 hours from her wake up time and do her dream feed there. If you put her to bed 12 hours earlier, yes, it would be 4 hours after you put her to bed. That would be more tiring if her bed time is 7. If you put her to bed at 6, it's better for you to get more rest.
We are early risers so we put him to bed aroun 5:30. 😊
Just wanted to add an update. The very day I posted the above comment, my baby had eaten better during the day, and that night he jumped from 5 hours to 9! Next night he slept 10 hours without a feed. I was amazed. For we never worked on dropping night feeds, and didn't drop night time feed first and then the dream feed. I had stopped doing the dream feed because my husband asked me to, for he didn't want me to go to bed late. I reluctantly did it because I thought it would delay the process. So it was such a surprise to me when he dropped both feedings at once!
ReplyDeleteAnd the only thing we've done is PDF feedings, aiming for eat/wake/sleep and full feedings. So I encourage any mother who is struggling to keep doing their best. Oh the bed time routine is also helping me so much to help him to go to sleep easier and have better naps.
I thank the Lord for helping our baby and ask Him to bless those of you who are trying to help others with your experience. God bless you all richly!
Hi, I'm a first time mom due in a couple of weeks, and I'm trying to figure out what I want to do. From everything I've heard and read I like this method best. However, I don't understand how others get time with baby. If baby eats for 45 minutes and then sleeps for 2 hours when does dad get to be with him? Thanks!
ReplyDeleteIn a feed-wake(also called "play")-sleep pattern, others can have time with the baby too. If you're breastfeeding, then obviously you'd be holding the baby during feeding, but someone else can help with burping, playtime/waketime, and hold them when they are sleeping. :)
ReplyDeleteBaby will also start to eat quicker and stay awake longer before you know it.,
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI found your blog to be quite helpful. I have been using the pdf method for all my children. My third one is 18weeks old now and we dropped the late night feed at 17 weeks. His last feed was at 7.30pm now and he would wake up at 6am. Between 6am-6.30am has been the wake time I'm comfortable with so that I get ready for work. But all of a sudden in the last few days he now wakes up at 5am instead of 6am. I have been trying to stretch him to 5.30am at least but it's quite a struggle. Would you have any idea of what could be happening?
His schedule now is something like this:
Wake up 6.15am
Eat
Sleep 7.45am
Wake up 10am
Eat
Sleep 11.30am
Wake up 1.30pm
Eat
Sleep 3pm
Wake up 5.30pm
Eat
Family time
Eat 7.30am then put him straight to bed after this. I usually put him down at 8pm.
i decided to drop the 4th nap for him. Before this one it was:
Wake up 6.15am
Eat
Sleep 7.45am
Wake up 10am
Eat
Sleep 11.30am
Wake up 1.30pm
Eat
Sleep 3pm
Wake up 4.30pm
Eat
sleep 6pm
wake up and Eat 7.30am then put him straight to bed after this. I usually put him down at 8pm.
i decided to drop the 4th nap for him.
Hope to get a few tips to get him back to the wake time we set since he got onto the schedule.
Kind regards
Real quick (since my own is waking) the first thing I'd wonder, if this was my own baby was if he or she was going through a growth spurt and was waking earlier to eat or if there had just been one and the baby needed less sleep. So, I'd pay careful attention during the day to not leaving the baby to sleep longer naps than he wanted and especially at night I would try to make the last feed-wake-sleep cycle before bed peaceful so he could get as much milk as he wanted and have a nice full tummy before bed. There. Don't know that will solve your problems, but maybe something will be helpful. Sounds like you're a great mommy!
ReplyDeleteP.S. You might also check the Babywise (or whatever guide you're using) and watch his cues to see he's ready to drop a feed-wake-sleep cycle.
ReplyDelete