The morning nap usually disappears around 12-22 months. The need to drop, wean or lengthen the waketime before or after this nap causes much of the distress that parents experience with this nap. It is pretty unusual for a baby to actually need to completely drop this nap before 12 months, but certainly some weaning can occurs before
this time. Often when the nap is dropped as early as 12 months it is for mom's convenience or because there are problems popping up with this or other naps (usually the afternoon nap) because the morning nap has not been moved to a later time (see Won't Fall Asleep At Sleep Times - Plays, Cries, Or Does Both), it is lasting too long, or there needs to be an increased waketime after this nap to allow an afternoon nap to occur. Although a mom of a 12 month old may note that her child seems to do fine on just one nap, most likely he would function even better if he had a short morning nap, even if it was for only 30 minutes. Young children simply have a hard time staying awake for large amounts of time without rest periods. Sure they can get somewhat used to this, but once again their behavior will not be at its full potential.
You generally drop the morning nap before the afternoon nap because 1) there is a natural dip in alertness during the afternoon so this is a good nap (and later quiet) time and 2) there is no way baby can make it from the morning nap all the way to bedtime without turning into a mess! You need a nap in the middle of the day so that baby can more easily, and happily, last from morning wake up to afternoon nap to bedtime.
This nap usually appears naturally around 3-4 months. By 5/6 months, it is best to start it around 9-10 am to ensure the rest of the naps during the day occur at appropriate times, although some babies will do better with a shorter waketimes before this nap for a while longer (see Biological Rhythms and Sleep). The afternoon nap then usually happens between 1-2 pm and if there is still a third nap nap, it'll likely happen around 4 pm.
More REM sleep occurs during this nap which is possibly a sign of this nap sort of being a continuation of night sleep. This may explain why there is usually the shortest period of waketime before this nap. The waketime before this nap is often 15-60 minutes shorter than the waketime before other sleep periods in the day.
Related posts:
Controlling Nap Lengths
Early Morning Awakenings
this time. Often when the nap is dropped as early as 12 months it is for mom's convenience or because there are problems popping up with this or other naps (usually the afternoon nap) because the morning nap has not been moved to a later time (see Won't Fall Asleep At Sleep Times - Plays, Cries, Or Does Both), it is lasting too long, or there needs to be an increased waketime after this nap to allow an afternoon nap to occur. Although a mom of a 12 month old may note that her child seems to do fine on just one nap, most likely he would function even better if he had a short morning nap, even if it was for only 30 minutes. Young children simply have a hard time staying awake for large amounts of time without rest periods. Sure they can get somewhat used to this, but once again their behavior will not be at its full potential.
You generally drop the morning nap before the afternoon nap because 1) there is a natural dip in alertness during the afternoon so this is a good nap (and later quiet) time and 2) there is no way baby can make it from the morning nap all the way to bedtime without turning into a mess! You need a nap in the middle of the day so that baby can more easily, and happily, last from morning wake up to afternoon nap to bedtime.
This nap usually appears naturally around 3-4 months. By 5/6 months, it is best to start it around 9-10 am to ensure the rest of the naps during the day occur at appropriate times, although some babies will do better with a shorter waketimes before this nap for a while longer (see Biological Rhythms and Sleep). The afternoon nap then usually happens between 1-2 pm and if there is still a third nap nap, it'll likely happen around 4 pm.
More REM sleep occurs during this nap which is possibly a sign of this nap sort of being a continuation of night sleep. This may explain why there is usually the shortest period of waketime before this nap. The waketime before this nap is often 15-60 minutes shorter than the waketime before other sleep periods in the day.
Related posts:
Controlling Nap Lengths
Early Morning Awakenings
Can you post the link to the 'naps and biological rythms' post you refer to above? Thanks, great blog!
ReplyDeleteLOL. Oops. I put that there in capitol letters to remind myself to write that post and link it to this one. Obviously I forgot! Sorry! I'm out of town right now so I don't have my information with me so I won't be able to do this post until I get back. But until then, I was generally going to write about how your body has different hormones and stuff at different times of the day that make you (and babies) more tired and alert at different times which is why there are better times to take a nap as well as go to bed that line up with these dips in alertness.
ReplyDeleteAwesome, look forward to the info. I have a 12 week old - we are doing a mix of BW and Baby whisperer conceptually... she gets up between 6:30 and 7:00 and goes down for her first nap around 8am, only because she really can't stay awake for longer than 1 - 1.5 hours at a time. 1.5 hours is PUSHING it for my LO. she sleeps 2 hours then and then goes down for her next nap around 11am and sleeps usually 1.5 hours for that nap. Then she goes down again around 2pm for another 1.5 hours. She catnaps at night when she feels like it - usually very grumpy from 5-7pm :o) I'm curious how to tie out the schedule against the rythm, and how to figure out what your LO's rythm is to begin with. ie, would she do better if she went down at 9am for the first nap? her morning wake up time seems to be constant no matter what. Thanks again!
ReplyDeleteAt 12 weeks, I would definately put your baby down after her appropriate wake time and not worry about the times listed above from HSHHC. If you try to keep up her until 9 she is definately going to get over tired and not sleep as well. 2 hours is most likely too much wake time at 12 weeks. 1-1.5 hours like you mentioned sounds more appropriate. I know the most important dip in alertness occurs between 12-2, but only if it fits in with your baby's schedule. For example, right now my son is awake from 12-2. Having him sleep then simply won't work out with his schedule at all since he is on two naps. But when he drops to 1 nap we will work on having him sleep during that time.
ReplyDeleteI personally think the most important biorythm to follow is bedtime- which should be an early one. Kids simply shoudln't be up until 10. Their bodies aren't made for it. Sounds like you are doing this though.
You sound like you are doing just the right hting to figure out your daughter's rythms at this time. It involves mainly figuring out how long she can stay awake at each period of wakefullness during the day and putting her down for a nap then. If you are doing that then you are doing great!
When you say she cat naps when she feels like it, do you mean sometimes you put her down and she won't sleep, but other times she will sleep? You might want to try moving aorund your awake time for that last nap. Also, if she misses the last nap be sure to put her to bed earlier, even at 6 if needed. If you still can't get her to take a nap, I'd try something like a nice soothing walk in the evenings etc. Good luck!
My feed schedule at night is 3 or 3:30pm, then again at 5, then again at 6:30/7...so essentially I'm cluster feeding. The one thing I've always struggled with is when she should nap during this time. She almost always goes down after the 3pm feeding for 45mins or so. Then I was actually just keeping her up after the 5pm feeding and we start bath around 6:30 and she's feeding by 7:00 at the latest. If I put her down for a 'nap' after the 5pm, she falls pretty hard and I'm waking her up for the 7pm feed. Then sometimes it takes her longer to fall asleep. I don't want her bedtime to be 5pm, which is why I kept her up. What do you think about this? I said 'when she feels like it' but really it's just when it happens. ie Today, she didn't really nap this afternoon because we were out and about, so I put her down around 5:30 and let her sleep an hour. Woke her up and did the bedtime routine as usual. WWYD?
ReplyDeleteI'm a little confused. From your previous comment it sounds like she wakes up from a nap around 3 or 3:30 then eats but you just mentioned that she goes down after the 3 pm feeding for 45 minutes. Do you mean after a wake time she goes down for 45 minutes? And that after the 5 pm feeding she has a wake time then goes down agian? I guess I can't really give you advice until I've got your schedule figured out. Let me know and I'll get back to you ASAP.
ReplyDeleteSorry, the schedule varies w/in 30 mins throughout the day and I didn't explain very well : o)
ReplyDelete6:30m morning wake and playtime
7:30am go down for nap (could be around 7:45 or 8am if she woke later than 6:30)
9:30am wake from nap, feed and playtime
10:30am go down for nap
12:00pm (sometimes 12:30) wake from nap, feed and playtime
1:30pm go down for nap (maybe a little earlier if she woke closer to 12:00 on the last nap)
3:00pm wake from nap, feed and playtime
4:00pm down for nap, this is the catnap
5:00pm (ish and here's where my questions are) wake from nap, feed and hang out with us time. We generally keep her awake, start bathtime around 6:30 and I feed around 7ish, she's out by 7:30. Generally she's ok during this waketime, but she gets pretty fussy and tired by the time the feeding happens. I could put her down earlier, but I'm afraid she'll wake up earlier in the AM. What do you think? On occasion, if she missed or didn't nap well during the day, I'll put her down after I feed her at 5pm for a little catnap (this is what I was referring that I did last night). I woke her up at 6:45 for bath, feed then she went to bed. I really don't want her going to bed at 5:30pm, cuz I'm pretty positive that will mean a 5:30am wake which I do not want :o)
I dreamfeed at 10pm, nurses for less than 10 mins and I put her right back down. She doesn't wake up at all for the feed.
I hope that makes more sense now :o) THANK YOU so much for chatting with me!
Do you wake her from the 4 pm catnap? If not, I'd let her sleep longer at this time because she obviously needs it. If she wakes up by herself at this time then I would try putting her to bed earlier. Being up for 2.5 hours is a really long time for a 12 week old. I know putting her to bed earlier can be a little nerve racking because your afraid she'll wake up earlier. Most likely she won't though (unless she is hungry but the dream feed should solve that). Usually when you put babies to bed earlier (to a point of course) your baby will sleep longer. There are some babies that simply won't sleep more than x amount of hours per night, but 12 hours at night seems to be about average I've noticed. So I'd start by putting her to bed 15-30 minutes earlier the first night and then make this an additional 15 minutes earlier a few nights later. When she isn't going to bed easily or when she starts to wake up earlier in the morning you'll know you've reached your appropriate bedtime. But remember you need to be consistent and wait it out for a few days. Just because she wake up earlier than usual one day doesn't mean that it isn't working. Things are always going to vary a bit. Let me know how things end up going. Hopefully this'll help.
ReplyDeleteOh, and I wanted to mention one thing about the cluster feeding. I don't know your reasons for doing this, but most babies usually don't need cluster feedings after around 9 weeks. Some do need maybe a feeding only 2 hours apart from the last before they go to bed but usually this is sufficient. Of course, every baby can vary.
Hi there- I know this is an older post but I came across it while searching for help with a problem I'm having... my LO is 3.5 months and has been on a ~3 hour schedule for a while. We are not super rigid with the times, we don't usually wake him from naps if they go a little longer. Anyway, his waketime is around 6:30. He has a feeding the night before at around 5pm, and then I have to get him up for his last meal at around 8pm.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I am having is that he goes down for his morning nap at the time we have always put him down, but lately he either stays awake in his crib almost the whole time talking to himself and looking around, or he might sleep until 9 and wake up, or might stay awake and nap here and there... either way, he does not get a good sleep during this nap time anymore. He hardly ever cries, though. If we leave him, then somewhere around 9:30 am, he starts whimpering and falls asleep if we leave him. But we have been on a schedule where his next feeding is at 10am... and now that has also gotten messed up a lot because he sleeps past that time.
The only thing that has changed is that I have had to go back to work, so I put him down at around 7:30 (same as always) and my parents come to stay with him. His next feeding is not until 10ish. There may be other factors that I'm unaware of since I'm not home.
My question is, what do you think I should do? If he is awake the whole time, should I just leave him in there until his "naptime" is over? If he falls alseep 30 minutes before his scheduled feeding, should I wake him hip or let him sleep until he wakes up? If he does fall asleep before his naptime is over he does not cry at all, is perfectly content to lay in there until he falls asleep (sometimes 1.5 hrs of laying there). O maybe I should keep him up longer in the morning before putting him down for this first nap? Also, sometimes the timing of his last feeding varies, maybe that is the culprit?
Also, just want to add that we've been keeping his wake time between naps to about an hour and 15 - an hour and 30 minutes... this seems to be good for him. But maybe he needs longer wake times at some time during the day for more stimulation, and that might help him sleep better during his morning nap...?
ReplyDeleteHe sleeps great at night, btw... if he wakes up he goes back to sleep on his own. Sleeps a good 9-10 hrs, minimum.
Hi Rachel
ReplyDeleteMy son is now 16 months old and this is his routine:
05h00/05h30 Wake up
09h30 - 10h15 Nap
13h30-15h00 Nap
21h00 Bed time
I feel like we are having issues with too little night time sleep. Perhaps too much day time sleep.
If I let him, he likes a long morning nap - that results in a later afternoon nap etc etc etc. So I generally wake him after 30-45 minutes - he hates being woken up and I feel terrible having to do it to him.
I have tried dropping the morning nap and that just results in an overtired toddler who then is unplayable. Who does not enjoy going to the park. Cannot be taken anywhere in the car as I don't want him to sleep there (if he does fall asleep in the car it is then generally later then his morning nap time which throws the afternoon nap out). The same applies when I push the morning nap to late morning.
He goes to bed late no matter when his naps are - unless he only naps in the morning and cuts the afternoon nap. This causes a lot of the same issues that dropping the morning nap does in that often he then crashes at about 15h30 and then bed time is a problem.
What should I do? Is this an in between phase that I just need to ride the wave of and juggle and be flexible? Or is there something to be done?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Alexis
Hi! Hoping you can help me!
ReplyDeleteMy 5.5 month old is sleep trained for nights and sleeps 11-12 hours at night. However, we've been nap training (CIO) for the last month, with some success and some new issues.
Positives of NT:
1. Naps in crib now
2. Goes down awake and goes to sleep without rocking or paci
3. Usually 2 of 3 naps are at least an hour
Issues since NT:
1. Extra early bedtime (515-545p) leading to earlier wake ups- 515/530a wake. He happily stays in crib until we go to him at 630, or sometimes he falls back asleep at 6/615/630 so we will let him go until 7a.
Problem is morning nap used to be easy and an hour long at least, but now it's always only 30-45min long. I'm thinking that's bc he's overtired given he'd been up since 515 and by the time we feed him and have him upright 20-30min (reflux) it's late for him to go down (about 730/745a).
2. Sometimes last nap ends too early and so bedtime is crazy early. He's only able to stay awake 2 hours prior to bedtime so we put him in the crib an hour and 45 min after last nap ends
3. Daily bedtime fluctuates between 515 and 615/630. Not sure if that hinders establishing a routine for him.
Please let me know if you see any improvement I can make to the overall schedule below to help with the issues above or any recommendations that come to mind.
Wakes anywhere from 515-630a (7a if he falls back asleep from 5/515 wake)
Nap wind down routine: books, close shades, white noise, magic suit on, sing abc before placing in crib
630: out of crib, diaper change
640: bottle feed
745: nap 1 (falls asleep within 5-15min), lasts 30-45min
845: take out of crib, play since too early for next feed
945a: bottle feed then food
1030/1045: nap 2 (1-1.5hours)
1245/1: bottle feed and food, then play
2/230: nap 3 (usually 1-1.5 hours but sometimes a disaster nap)
Bedtime: 1h45min after last nap ends (routine: bath, lotion, change clothes, suit on, white noise on, abc song and place in crib)
Thanks again for your time!
Hi! Hoping you can help me!
ReplyDeleteMy 5.5 month old is sleep trained for nights and sleeps 11-12 hours at night. However, we've been nap training (CIO) for the last month, with some success and some new issues.
Positives of NT:
1. Naps in crib now
2. Goes down awake and goes to sleep without rocking or paci
3. Usually 2 of 3 naps are at least an hour
Issues since NT:
1. Extra early bedtime (515-545p) leading to earlier wake ups- 515/530a wake. He happily stays in crib until we go to him at 630, or sometimes he falls back asleep at 6/615/630 so we will let him go until 7a.
Problem is morning nap used to be easy and an hour long at least, but now it's always only 30-45min long. I'm thinking that's bc he's overtired given he'd been up since 515 and by the time we feed him and have him upright 20-30min (reflux) it's late for him to go down (about 730/745a).
2. Sometimes last nap ends too early and so bedtime is crazy early. He's only able to stay awake 2 hours prior to bedtime so we put him in the crib an hour and 45 min after last nap ends
3. Daily bedtime fluctuates between 515 and 615/630. Not sure if that hinders establishing a routine for him.
Please let me know if you see any improvement I can make to the overall schedule below to help with the issues above or any recommendations that come to mind.
Wakes anywhere from 515-630a (7a if he falls back asleep from 5/515 wake)
Nap wind down routine: books, close shades, white noise, magic suit on, sing abc before placing in crib
630: out of crib, diaper change
640: bottle feed
745: nap 1 (falls asleep within 5-15min), lasts 30-45min
845: take out of crib, play since too early for next feed
945a: bottle feed then food
1030/1045: nap 2 (1-1.5hours)
1245/1: bottle feed and food, then play
2/230: nap 3 (usually 1-1.5 hours but sometimes a disaster nap)
Bedtime: 1h45min after last nap ends (routine: bath, lotion, change clothes, suit on, white noise on, abc song and place in crib)
Thanks again for your time!
Hi. My baby is almost 9 months old and has been happy on two naps since about 6 months old. She naps for about an hour and a half for each nap (about 9am and 1pm or 2pm) and goes to bed at about 630pm. However she wakes almost every night (any time between 2pm and 4am) for up to two hours! We don't pick her up apart from to check on her, she grumbles doesn't scream and eventually goes back to sleep. We don't think its hunger as she isn't desperately hungry in the morning. Is it possible her napping needs to be changed? Any advice would be helpful
ReplyDelete